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Jim Warren
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 Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:43 pm Post subject: Another car, another problem |
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I have just taken possession of a Minor 1000. It started first time and
I drove home (about 10 miles) with no problems at all. I switched off
the engine to use the keys to lock the boot, then started it up to park
it a bit more tidily.
It started first time, I drove forward about 4 feet and the engine cut
out. It wouldn't restart, though just occasionally one cylinder fired,
which was just enough to throw the starter bendix out of engagement.
A look under the bonnet showed good quality HT leads, new(ish)
distributor cap with a free-moving carbon brush, new points, new rotor
arm, new condenser. So clue: it has happened before, and someone has
done something about it. No loose wires on the coil or distributor
either. Nevertheless, it refused to start.
I left it while I got on with something else. A couple of hours later,
I tried it again. It started first time and ran perfectly.
Obviously, it is something that resets itself when the engine cools
down. My gut instinct says it is a dodgy coil, but the only way to
diagnose the problem properly is to check things systematically.
However, there is a limit to how many times I want to go on a 10 mile
run in the hope of reproducing the fault, whilst praying it doesn't
leave me by the roadside miles from anywhere waiting for it to cool down
enough to restart.
So has anybody had a fault like this before, and if so what caused it?
Jim |
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Ian
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:43 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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On 21 Jun, 19:43, Jim Warren <jimwar...@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
So has anybody had a fault like this before, and if so what caused it?
|
There are some notoriously dodgy pattern rotor arms out there.
Ian |
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Adrian
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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HI Jim
Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
I have just taken possession of a Minor 1000. It started first time and
I drove home (about 10 miles) with no problems at all. I switched off
the engine to use the keys to lock the boot, then started it up to park
it a bit more tidily.
It started first time, I drove forward about 4 feet and the engine cut
out. It wouldn't restart, though just occasionally one cylinder fired,
which was just enough to throw the starter bendix out of engagement.
A look under the bonnet showed good quality HT leads, new(ish)
distributor cap with a free-moving carbon brush, new points, new rotor
arm, new condenser. So clue: it has happened before, and someone has
done something about it. No loose wires on the coil or distributor
either. Nevertheless, it refused to start.
I left it while I got on with something else. A couple of hours later,
I tried it again. It started first time and ran perfectly.
Obviously, it is something that resets itself when the engine cools
down. My gut instinct says it is a dodgy coil, but the only way to
diagnose the problem properly is to check things systematically.
However, there is a limit to how many times I want to go on a 10 mile
run in the hope of reproducing the fault, whilst praying it doesn't
leave me by the roadside miles from anywhere waiting for it to cool down
enough to restart.
So has anybody had a fault like this before, and if so what caused it?
|
Had exactly that fault many many years ago on a Honda motorbike - coil
failed when it got hot. A particular pain because the coil was inside
the pressed steel chassis, underneath the petrol tank - so by the time
you'd got the bike dismantled to check the problem it'd cooled down
again and was working fine !
FWIW there's a Minor owner's group over on Yahoo groups - called
morris_motors - but, if 'everything else' has been changed then swapping
out the coil would be a cheap experiment...
...alternatively ask the question over on the Yahoo group - somebody out
there might have been there and done that...
Good luck with the Minor - running a '64 Mog traveller here as
day-to-day transport - so far been pretty reliable (said he, touching
wood frantically!)
Adrian - West Cork, Ireland |
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Jimmy
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Jim Warren wrote:
Top posting cause its long -
First check the point gap (015"), if as you say looks like new leads/cap
etc. Points may have worn off a dag and closed up.
r
| Quote: |
I have just taken possession of a Minor 1000. It started first time and
I drove home (about 10 miles) with no problems at all. I switched off
the engine to use the keys to lock the boot, then started it up to park
it a bit more tidily.
It started first time, I drove forward about 4 feet and the engine cut
out. It wouldn't restart, though just occasionally one cylinder fired,
which was just enough to throw the starter bendix out of engagement.
A look under the bonnet showed good quality HT leads, new(ish)
distributor cap with a free-moving carbon brush, new points, new rotor
arm, new condenser. So clue: it has happened before, and someone has
done something about it. No loose wires on the coil or distributor
either. Nevertheless, it refused to start.
I left it while I got on with something else. A couple of hours later,
I tried it again. It started first time and ran perfectly.
Obviously, it is something that resets itself when the engine cools
down. My gut instinct says it is a dodgy coil, but the only way to
diagnose the problem properly is to check things systematically.
However, there is a limit to how many times I want to go on a 10 mile
run in the hope of reproducing the fault, whilst praying it doesn't
leave me by the roadside miles from anywhere waiting for it to cool down
enough to restart.
So has anybody had a fault like this before, and if so what caused it?
Jim |
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Chris Bolus
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:43:31 GMT, Jim Warren
<jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
I have just taken possession of a Minor 1000. It started first time and
I drove home (about 10 miles) with no problems at all. I switched off
the engine to use the keys to lock the boot, then started it up to park
it a bit more tidily.
It started first time, I drove forward about 4 feet and the engine cut
out. It wouldn't restart, though just occasionally one cylinder fired,
which was just enough to throw the starter bendix out of engagement.
A look under the bonnet showed good quality HT leads, new(ish)
distributor cap with a free-moving carbon brush, new points, new rotor
arm, new condenser. So clue: it has happened before, and someone has
done something about it. No loose wires on the coil or distributor
either. Nevertheless, it refused to start.
I left it while I got on with something else. A couple of hours later,
I tried it again. It started first time and ran perfectly.
Obviously, it is something that resets itself when the engine cools
down. My gut instinct says it is a dodgy coil, but the only way to
diagnose the problem properly is to check things systematically.
However, there is a limit to how many times I want to go on a 10 mile
run in the hope of reproducing the fault, whilst praying it doesn't
leave me by the roadside miles from anywhere waiting for it to cool down
enough to restart.
So has anybody had a fault like this before, and if so what caused it?
Check the fuel pump. They're notorious. See if it's delivering fuel. |
Usually cleaning up the contacts in the pump solves the problem.
--
Regards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by plain text email)
------1967 Riley Elf------1978 Mini 1000------1971 Mini Clubman------
--1972 Mini Clubman estate--1979 Ford Capri--1984 VW Type 25 camper-- |
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Jim Warren
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Chris Bolus wrote:
| Quote: |
Check the fuel pump. They're notorious. See if it's delivering fuel.
Usually cleaning up the contacts in the pump solves the problem.
|
That was the first thing I checked. It ticked once when I turned the
ignition on, and there was a smell of unburnt petrol from the tailpipe
when I had wound the engine over for a while. It is not a fuel fault, I
am sure.
Jim |
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Elder
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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In article <J7q7k.13721$E41.9017@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk says...
| Quote: |
Chris Bolus wrote:
Check the fuel pump. They're notorious. See if it's delivering fuel.
Usually cleaning up the contacts in the pump solves the problem.
That was the first thing I checked. It ticked once when I turned the
ignition on, and there was a smell of unburnt petrol from the tailpipe
when I had wound the engine over for a while. It is not a fuel fault, I
am sure.
Jim
I fitted a halfords rotor arm and cap to a rangie that I was fettling |
for LPG and after a few weeks it ran crap and wouldn't run while hot but
was fine while cool, tried everything bar the rotor and cap.
I was convinced it was fuel or coil etc.
In the end, I took the cap off. Bingo, inside of cap was chewed up as
was the carbon contact. Rotor was pretty eaten too. Partco one cured
that.
--
Carl Robson
Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com |
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Jim Warren
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Elder wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <J7q7k.13721$E41.9017@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk says...
Chris Bolus wrote:
Check the fuel pump. They're notorious. See if it's delivering fuel.
Usually cleaning up the contacts in the pump solves the problem.
That was the first thing I checked. It ticked once when I turned the
ignition on, and there was a smell of unburnt petrol from the tailpipe
when I had wound the engine over for a while. It is not a fuel fault, I
am sure.
Jim
I fitted a halfords rotor arm and cap to a rangie that I was fettling
for LPG and after a few weeks it ran crap and wouldn't run while hot but
was fine while cool, tried everything bar the rotor and cap.
I was convinced it was fuel or coil etc.
In the end, I took the cap off. Bingo, inside of cap was chewed up as
was the carbon contact. Rotor was pretty eaten too. Partco one cured
that.
The cap and carbon brush are in good nick. The rotor arm looks new and |
undamaged, but I haven't taken it off to see what the makers name is (if
it is actually shown). Buying another one just in case wouldn't break
the bank though.
Jim |
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David Billington
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
Elder wrote:
In article <J7q7k.13721$E41.9017@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk says...
Chris Bolus wrote:
Check the fuel pump. They're notorious. See if it's delivering fuel.
Usually cleaning up the contacts in the pump solves the problem.
That was the first thing I checked. It ticked once when I turned
the ignition on, and there was a smell of unburnt petrol from the
tailpipe when I had wound the engine over for a while. It is not a
fuel fault, I am sure.
Jim
I fitted a halfords rotor arm and cap to a rangie that I was fettling
for LPG and after a few weeks it ran crap and wouldn't run while hot
but was fine while cool, tried everything bar the rotor and cap.
I was convinced it was fuel or coil etc.
In the end, I took the cap off. Bingo, inside of cap was chewed up as
was the carbon contact. Rotor was pretty eaten too. Partco one cured
that.
The cap and carbon brush are in good nick. The rotor arm looks new
and undamaged, but I haven't taken it off to see what the makers name
is (if it is actually shown). Buying another one just in case
wouldn't break the bank though.
Jim
Worth changing it just to make sure and if no change keep one as a spare |
anyway. On the MG bulletin board there are many tales of poor rotor arms
which break down and track internally to the dizzy shaft. |
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Jimmy
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
Chris Bolus wrote:
Check the fuel pump. They're notorious. See if it's delivering fuel.
Usually cleaning up the contacts in the pump solves the problem.
That was the first thing I checked. It ticked once when I turned the
ignition on, and there was a smell of unburnt petrol from the tailpipe
when I had wound the engine over for a while. It is not a fuel fault, I
am sure.
Jim
|
Hows the point gap? |
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Jimmy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
Elder wrote:
In article <J7q7k.13721$E41.9017@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk says...
Chris Bolus wrote:
Check the fuel pump. They're notorious. See if it's delivering fuel.
Usually cleaning up the contacts in the pump solves the problem.
That was the first thing I checked. It ticked once when I turned the
ignition on, and there was a smell of unburnt petrol from the
tailpipe when I had wound the engine over for a while. It is not a
fuel fault, I am sure.
Jim
I fitted a halfords rotor arm and cap to a rangie that I was fettling
for LPG and after a few weeks it ran crap and wouldn't run while hot
but was fine while cool, tried everything bar the rotor and cap.
I was convinced it was fuel or coil etc.
In the end, I took the cap off. Bingo, inside of cap was chewed up as
was the carbon contact. Rotor was pretty eaten too. Partco one cured
that.
The cap and carbon brush are in good nick. The rotor arm looks new and
undamaged, but I haven't taken it off to see what the makers name is (if
it is actually shown). Buying another one just in case wouldn't break
the bank though.
Jim
|
Hows the point gap? |
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Kevin Poole
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
I have just taken possession of a Minor 1000. It started first time and
I drove home (about 10 miles) with no problems at all.
|
<snip tale of hot-starting problem>
| Quote: |
Obviously, it is something that resets itself when the engine cools
down. My gut instinct says it is a dodgy coil, but the only way to
diagnose the problem properly is to check things systematically.
|
Did the coil feel very hot?
If so, it's possible that someone has fitted a modern coil, designed to
work with a ballast resistor. They soon get a bit warm with 12v across
them...
--
Kevin Poole
****Use current date to reply (e.g. jun2008@mainbeam.co.uk)**** |
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Jim Warren
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Kevin Poole wrote:
| Quote: |
Jim Warren wrote:
I have just taken possession of a Minor 1000. It started first time and
I drove home (about 10 miles) with no problems at all.
snip tale of hot-starting problem
Obviously, it is something that resets itself when the engine cools
down. My gut instinct says it is a dodgy coil, but the only way to
diagnose the problem properly is to check things systematically.
Did the coil feel very hot?
If so, it's possible that someone has fitted a modern coil, designed to
work with a ballast resistor. They soon get a bit warm with 12v across
them...
The coil is mounted on top of the dynamo and behind the radiator, so |
although it did feel hot, I put that down to the location. It could be
a 6V coil working without a ballast resistor though. I hadn't thought
of that.
I have ordered another one. It will be interesting to find out whether
it runs cooler.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Jim |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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In article <nZb7k.13456$E41.5815@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
Jim Warren <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
Obviously, it is something that resets itself when the engine cools
down. My gut instinct says it is a dodgy coil, but the only way to
diagnose the problem properly is to check things systematically.
However, there is a limit to how many times I want to go on a 10 mile
run in the hope of reproducing the fault, whilst praying it doesn't
leave me by the roadside miles from anywhere waiting for it to cool down
enough to restart.
|
A hairdrier on the coil might show up a heat related thingie.
However, I'd be inclined to check carefully all the work done. If you have
a spare condenser try that too - they can be intermittent.
--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:51 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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In article <485e5875$0$2490$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>,
David Billington <djb@djbillington.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
Worth changing it just to make sure and if no change keep one as a spare
anyway. On the MG bulletin board there are many tales of poor rotor arms
which break down and track internally to the dizzy shaft.
|
That should be obvious by inspection, though?
--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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