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Alan Smith
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 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
I have just taken possession of a Minor 1000. It started first time and
I drove home (about 10 miles) with no problems at all. I switched off
the engine to use the keys to lock the boot, then started it up to park
it a bit more tidily.
It started first time, I drove forward about 4 feet and the engine cut
out. It wouldn't restart, though just occasionally one cylinder fired,
which was just enough to throw the starter bendix out of engagement.
A look under the bonnet showed good quality HT leads, new(ish)
distributor cap with a free-moving carbon brush, new points, new rotor
arm, new condenser. So clue: it has happened before, and someone has
done something about it. No loose wires on the coil or distributor
either. Nevertheless, it refused to start.
I left it while I got on with something else. A couple of hours later,
I tried it again. It started first time and ran perfectly.
Obviously, it is something that resets itself when the engine cools
down. My gut instinct says it is a dodgy coil, but the only way to
diagnose the problem properly is to check things systematically.
However, there is a limit to how many times I want to go on a 10 mile
run in the hope of reproducing the fault, whilst praying it doesn't
leave me by the roadside miles from anywhere waiting for it to cool down
enough to restart.
So has anybody had a fault like this before, and if so what caused it?
Jim
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Have you considered powerstart or ezistart when it won't start. Just
thinking if it's warm & fails to start a quick squirt of the dreaded
fluid into the air inlet, if it tries to run or actually starts then
that really eliminates the electrics. Having read the whole of the
posting I'm inclined to think the problem is fuel related not electrics.
Alan... |
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Jim Warren
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Alan Smith wrote:
| Quote: |
Have you considered powerstart or ezistart when it won't start. Just
thinking if it's warm & fails to start a quick squirt of the dreaded
fluid into the air inlet, if it tries to run or actually starts then
that really eliminates the electrics. Having read the whole of the
posting I'm inclined to think the problem is fuel related not electrics.
Alan...
|
I am beginning to think along those lines myself. Unfortunately, I
haven't had time to take the car for a good run to get it hot since last
weekend, and by the time I thought about a possible fuel cause after the
last time I had difficulty, everything had cooled down again.
I will pursue two possibilities - flooding (needle valve not sealing,
float level too high) and vaporising (the little pipe from the float
chamber to jet looks rather exposed to the heat from the exhaust manifold).
I don't think I have any Powerstart though. It must be 30 years ago I
last bought anything like that.
Jim |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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In article <1iji4b7.1anklmzde96x2N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
Jim Warren <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
It's usually possible to cut them - prise open the terminal, remove
and remove the 'hook' that goes down the middle. Cut to length,
insert the hook and carefully crimp back the connector.
Depends on the type. Some used to have screw-in connectors which
were a doddle to change. Unscrew, cut lead, screw back.
Weren't they the leads with the copper wire core? I've not seen any of
that type for years.
Yes, those were the ones.
|
A bad idea. You need to fit suppressors to both ends for those to be half
as effective as the carbon string type - and that works out more
expensive. Plus the fact that most coils and distributor caps are designed
for the plug in type.
--
*There are two kinds of pedestrians... the quick and the dead.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Chris Bolus
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:07:16 GMT, Jim Warren
<jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
Alan Smith wrote:
Have you considered powerstart or ezistart when it won't start. Just
thinking if it's warm & fails to start a quick squirt of the dreaded
fluid into the air inlet, if it tries to run or actually starts then
that really eliminates the electrics. Having read the whole of the
posting I'm inclined to think the problem is fuel related not electrics.
Alan...
I am beginning to think along those lines myself. Unfortunately, I
haven't had time to take the car for a good run to get it hot since last
weekend, and by the time I thought about a possible fuel cause after the
last time I had difficulty, everything had cooled down again.
I will pursue two possibilities - flooding (needle valve not sealing,
float level too high) and vaporising (the little pipe from the float
chamber to jet looks rather exposed to the heat from the exhaust manifold).
|
There is one other, though it doesn't sound likely, that the pump
diaphragm may be split - they are serviceable. But I would have thought
that would be a problem when cold too.
--
Regards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by plain text email)
------1967 Riley Elf------1978 Mini 1000------1971 Mini Clubman------
--1972 Mini Clubman estate--1979 Ford Capri--1984 VW Type 25 camper-- |
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Steve Firth
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
A bad idea. You need to fit suppressors to both ends for those to be half
as effective as the carbon string type - and that works out more
expensive. Plus the fact that most coils and distributor caps are designed
for the plug in type.
|
Errm, the connectors were plug in, they screwed into the cable not the
coil and distributor. The connectors had suppressors built in and were
extremely easy to use. I never had any complaints about them at the time
I used them. |
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Jim Warren
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
Alan Smith wrote:
Have you considered powerstart or ezistart when it won't start. Just
thinking if it's warm & fails to start a quick squirt of the dreaded
fluid into the air inlet, if it tries to run or actually starts then
that really eliminates the electrics. Having read the whole of the
posting I'm inclined to think the problem is fuel related not electrics.
Alan...
I am beginning to think along those lines myself. Unfortunately, I
haven't had time to take the car for a good run to get it hot since last
weekend, and by the time I thought about a possible fuel cause after the
last time I had difficulty, everything had cooled down again.
I will pursue two possibilities - flooding (needle valve not sealing,
float level too high) and vaporising (the little pipe from the float
chamber to jet looks rather exposed to the heat from the exhaust manifold).
I don't think I have any Powerstart though. It must be 30 years ago I
last bought anything like that.
Jim
|
For everybody who contributed to this thread, thanks for all the
suggestions. And this is what I found...
In the float chamber, the float has a metal mounting strip which pivots
on a metal pin, while the needle valve opens and closes according to the
position of the metal strip on the top of the float.
Goodness knows how long the float has been there, but the friction of
the pivot on the pin had worn away the mounting strip until one side
wore completely through and the other side can't be more than a thou
thick. So the float was tipping sideways once it raised the needle
valve, which didn't quite shut off as a result.
While the engine was running, this slow dribble of extra fuel just
showed as a slightly rich mixture, but once the engine stops, the
remainder of the pump pressure slowly overfilled the float chamber which
came out of the jet and made a pool in the inlet manifold (which doesn't
have a drain). Which made it far too rich to start on a hot engine, but
leave it a couple of hours and the excess evaporated and the engine
would start.
So a new float and new pin later (and a new needle valve, though I might
have got away with using the old one), I have just got to put the carb
back tomorrow and try it out. But I am expecting the problem to be
fixed. But what a problem - I have never heard of anything like this
before!
Jim |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:29 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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In article <0ARdk.25297$E41.1337@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
Jim Warren <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
While the engine was running, this slow dribble of extra fuel just
showed as a slightly rich mixture, but once the engine stops, the
remainder of the pump pressure slowly overfilled the float chamber which
came out of the jet and made a pool in the inlet manifold (which doesn't
have a drain). Which made it far too rich to start on a hot engine, but
leave it a couple of hours and the excess evaporated and the engine
would start.
So a new float and new pin later (and a new needle valve, though I might
have got away with using the old one), I have just got to put the carb
back tomorrow and try it out. But I am expecting the problem to be
fixed. But what a problem - I have never heard of anything like this
before!
|
I'm surprised you didn't smell it?
--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Rob
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Jim
| Quote: |
So a new float and new pin later (and a new needle valve, though I might
have got away with using the old one), I have just got to put the carb
back tomorrow and try it out. But I am expecting the problem to be
fixed. But what a problem - I have never heard of anything like this
before!
Jim
|
I'm surprised that you could not smell petrol if that was the case. If
you had checked the mixture at idle it should have indicated a rich
mixture and you should have run out of adjustment in the jet, this would
have eliminated or tracked down the problem sooner.
r |
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Adrian
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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HI Jim
Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
Jim Warren wrote:
Alan Smith wrote:
Have you considered powerstart or ezistart when it won't start. Just
thinking if it's warm & fails to start a quick squirt of the dreaded
fluid into the air inlet, if it tries to run or actually starts then
that really eliminates the electrics. Having read the whole of the
posting I'm inclined to think the problem is fuel related not electrics.
Alan...
I am beginning to think along those lines myself. Unfortunately, I
haven't had time to take the car for a good run to get it hot since
last weekend, and by the time I thought about a possible fuel cause
after the last time I had difficulty, everything had cooled down again.
I will pursue two possibilities - flooding (needle valve not sealing,
float level too high) and vaporising (the little pipe from the float
chamber to jet looks rather exposed to the heat from the exhaust
manifold).
I don't think I have any Powerstart though. It must be 30 years ago I
last bought anything like that.
Jim
For everybody who contributed to this thread, thanks for all the
suggestions. And this is what I found...
In the float chamber, the float has a metal mounting strip which pivots
on a metal pin, while the needle valve opens and closes according to the
position of the metal strip on the top of the float.
Goodness knows how long the float has been there, but the friction of
the pivot on the pin had worn away the mounting strip until one side
wore completely through and the other side can't be more than a thou
thick. So the float was tipping sideways once it raised the needle
valve, which didn't quite shut off as a result.
While the engine was running, this slow dribble of extra fuel just
showed as a slightly rich mixture, but once the engine stops, the
remainder of the pump pressure slowly overfilled the float chamber which
came out of the jet and made a pool in the inlet manifold (which doesn't
have a drain). Which made it far too rich to start on a hot engine, but
leave it a couple of hours and the excess evaporated and the engine
would start.
So a new float and new pin later (and a new needle valve, though I might
have got away with using the old one), I have just got to put the carb
back tomorrow and try it out. But I am expecting the problem to be
fixed. But what a problem - I have never heard of anything like this
before!
Jim
|
Well done! - hope that's sorted it - now to _enjoy_ the car ! <g>
Regards
Adrian
(just about to potter off in his '64 Traveller to set up a stall at a
week-long Art Exhibition near Kinsale, Co Cork, Ireland.
www.inspired-glass.com/kaw - if you're interested...) |
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Jim Warren
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <0ARdk.25297$E41.1337@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
Jim Warren <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
While the engine was running, this slow dribble of extra fuel just
showed as a slightly rich mixture, but once the engine stops, the
remainder of the pump pressure slowly overfilled the float chamber which
came out of the jet and made a pool in the inlet manifold (which doesn't
have a drain). Which made it far too rich to start on a hot engine, but
leave it a couple of hours and the excess evaporated and the engine
would start.
So a new float and new pin later (and a new needle valve, though I might
have got away with using the old one), I have just got to put the carb
back tomorrow and try it out. But I am expecting the problem to be
fixed. But what a problem - I have never heard of anything like this
before!
I'm surprised you didn't smell it?
The float chamber never overflowed, it just filled to a level where the |
top of the jet was lower than the surface of the petrol, so the excess
bled into the manifold. And of course, I was trying to establish why
the car wouldn't start, so I was turning it over, which would have
sucked the fumes into the engine. Think of it as trying to start a hot
engine on full choke, which is why, once the engine had got cold, it
would start.
Yes there was some smell of petrol, but not particularly strong and I
assumed that it was coming from the tail pipe (I was in the street, and
there was always some wind), which is why the first port of call was the
electrics. There is an air filter on the outside of the carb too, so
the petrol fumes didn't have an easy path to the outside air under the
bonnet.
I imagine I have replaced a serviceable coil, HT leads and rotor arm
that I changed during my process of elimination. I am not going to put
them back to find out if they are serviceable though. But I think I
will keep the old float for a rogues gallery!
Jim |
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