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Jim Warren
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Roberts wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi
My guess would be the coil but I am reminded of a similar problem on a
Moggie 1000. You set the points correctly but due to wear in the distributor
spindle the points gap was erratic. Check the gap in several positions and
check the gap when it will not start. It's a long shot but it had me going
round in circles. Being pretty tight I averaged the gap in several
positions - not for people who are fussy!
Alan
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The car now has a brand new coil, and it hasn't made any difference at
all. It is about to get a new set of HT leads, because the ones fitted
are too long and wind round each other to use up the slack. So thanks
for the distributor wear idea - I can certainly check that out.
The trouble with buying a car you are not familiar with is that it is
almost impossible to tell what has been altered unless you can compare
it with a known unaltered one. So for some information I am relying on
other owners to advise me.
And the other thing I wondered was whether there should be something
between the exhaust manifold and the carb to protect it from the heat?
All the diagrams in the workshop manual start with the assumption that
the carb is off the car, so I can't see what the installed state looks
like. It just seems to be very close to something very hot, and I
wondered if that might affect hot starting. When the engine is running,
there will be a cooling draught from the fan over the carb, but there is
scope for a vapour lock once the engine stops running. Also, how does
air get into the petrol tank to replace the petrol pumped to the carb?
Is there a vent pipe, or does air go in around the petrol cap. I ask
because it has a replacement cap, and I can't see any vent in it.
Jim |
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Adrian
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Hi Jim
Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
Roberts wrote:
Hi
My guess would be the coil but I am reminded of a similar problem on a
Moggie 1000. You set the points correctly but due to wear in the
distributor spindle the points gap was erratic. Check the gap in
several positions and check the gap when it will not start. It's a
long shot but it had me going round in circles. Being pretty tight I
averaged the gap in several positions - not for people who are fussy!
Alan
The car now has a brand new coil, and it hasn't made any difference at
all. It is about to get a new set of HT leads, because the ones fitted
are too long and wind round each other to use up the slack. So thanks
for the distributor wear idea - I can certainly check that out.
The trouble with buying a car you are not familiar with is that it is
almost impossible to tell what has been altered unless you can compare
it with a known unaltered one. So for some information I am relying on
other owners to advise me.
And the other thing I wondered was whether there should be something
between the exhaust manifold and the carb to protect it from the heat?
All the diagrams in the workshop manual start with the assumption that
the carb is off the car, so I can't see what the installed state looks
like. It just seems to be very close to something very hot, and I
wondered if that might affect hot starting. When the engine is running,
there will be a cooling draught from the fan over the carb, but there is
scope for a vapour lock once the engine stops running. Also, how does
air get into the petrol tank to replace the petrol pumped to the carb?
Is there a vent pipe, or does air go in around the petrol cap. I ask
because it has a replacement cap, and I can't see any vent in it.
Jim
|
I've been watching this thread with interest - had one or two cars/bikes
both ancient and modern that had similar problems.
Here's a thought - run the car until she's warm. Stop, try to re-start -
if the fault occurs, try whipping the filler cap off the fuel tank....
If she starts & runs then that's your problem - need a new filler cap..
I had a Golf once that had a similar fault - turned out to be a blocked
vent in the filler cap - and the pump couldn't suck petrol through
against the vacuum in the tank. Leave it for half a hour and the air
found its way back in again and all was well... until the next time...
Nothing to do with the engine heating up - more to do with 'using up
petrol' from the tank...
Just had a look at the filler cap on my '64 Traveller (looks like the
original cap) and it does have a venting arrnagement biult into the cap.
There are two small holes 'inside' the sealing ring - which seem to vent
to another larger hole 'outside' the sealing ring. If your replacement
cap doesn't have vents then this could be the answer....
Now if somebody could just tell me where the rattle's coming from
'somewhere in the region of the steering column' then I'd be a very
happy bunny !<g>
Good luck
Adrian |
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Kevin Poole
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
And the other thing I wondered was whether there should be something
between the exhaust manifold and the carb to protect it from the heat?
|
Not as far as I can see from the pictures in Ray Newell's excellent
"Original Morris Minor" book, but those were the days when petrol was
proper petrol, not the present benzene-ring rubbish we now get. Midgets
certainly had a heat shield.
| Quote: |
When the engine is running,
there will be a cooling draught from the fan over the carb, but there is
scope for a vapour lock once the engine stops running.
|
Yup.
| Quote: |
Also, how does
air get into the petrol tank to replace the petrol pumped to the carb?
Is there a vent pipe, or does air go in around the petrol cap. I ask
because it has a replacement cap, and I can't see any vent in it.
|
The same book shows a saloon with its petrol cap hanging on its chain,
and it clearly has two vent holes on the inside. I've only once come
across a car which was trying to evacuate its tank, and there was a
distinct "whoosh" when I opened the filler cap. Certainly worth
checking, though I'd have expected it to show some signs of petrol
starvation before its failure to re-start.
--
Kevin Poole
****Use current date to reply (e.g. jul2008@mainbeam.co.uk)**** |
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Dave Plowman (News)
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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In article <C%Jak.19402$E41.13568@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
Jim Warren <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
It is about to get a new set of HT leads, because the ones fitted
are too long and wind round each other to use up the slack.
|
It's usually possible to cut them - prise open the terminal, remove and
remove the 'hook' that goes down the middle. Cut to length, insert the
hook and carefully crimp back the connector.
--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Jim Warren
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <C%Jak.19402$E41.13568@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
Jim Warren <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
It is about to get a new set of HT leads, because the ones fitted
are too long and wind round each other to use up the slack.
It's usually possible to cut them - prise open the terminal, remove and
remove the 'hook' that goes down the middle. Cut to length, insert the
hook and carefully crimp back the connector.
Thanks for the thought, but I had already fitted the replacements by the |
time I read this.
Jim |
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Steve Firth
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
It's usually possible to cut them - prise open the terminal, remove and
remove the 'hook' that goes down the middle. Cut to length, insert the
hook and carefully crimp back the connector.
|
Depends on the type. Some used to have screw-in connectors which were a
doddle to change. Unscrew, cut lead, screw back. |
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Rob.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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| Quote: |
Now if somebody could just tell me where the rattle's coming from
'somewhere in the region of the steering column' then I'd be a very
happy bunny !<g
Good luck
Adrian
|
That will either be the bushes in the steering column.
The rack needs adjustment on the pinion.
The bush at the other end needs replacing.
r |
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Adrian
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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HI Rob
Rob. wrote:
| Quote: |
Now if somebody could just tell me where the rattle's coming from
'somewhere in the region of the steering column' then I'd be a very
happy bunny !<g
Good luck
Adrian
That will either be the bushes in the steering column.
The rack needs adjustment on the pinion.
The bush at the other end needs replacing.
|
Thanks for the reply...
I have a set of the felt bushes for the steering column - guess that's
the first / easiest thing to try.....
Now where did I put that box of 'round tuits' <g>
Thanks
Adrian |
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Jim Warren
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Steve Firth wrote:
| Quote: |
Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
It's usually possible to cut them - prise open the terminal, remove and
remove the 'hook' that goes down the middle. Cut to length, insert the
hook and carefully crimp back the connector.
Depends on the type. Some used to have screw-in connectors which were a
doddle to change. Unscrew, cut lead, screw back.
|
Weren't they the leads with the copper wire core? I've not seen any of
that type for years.
Jim |
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Rob.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem - steering noise. |
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Adrian wrote:
| Quote: |
HI Rob
Rob. wrote:
Now if somebody could just tell me where the rattle's coming from
'somewhere in the region of the steering column' then I'd be a very
happy bunny !<g
Good luck
Adrian
That will either be the bushes in the steering column.
The rack needs adjustment on the pinion.
The bush at the other end needs replacing.
Thanks for the reply...
I have a set of the felt bushes for the steering column - guess that's
the first / easiest thing to try.....
Now where did I put that box of 'round tuits' <g
Thanks
Adrian
|
I could most likely sent you some.
Its taken me over 6 months to pull the motor on the MG, just to
lubricate the spigot bush in the flywheel, couldn't drive the thing as
it would not allow the gearbox input shaft to disengage, hence couldn't
change gear.
That's bloody modern mechanics for you, didn't use any lubricant on the
spigot after a gearbox rebuild. (Modern cars usually have a ball
bearings in the flywheel.) Fully trained on VW Audi Landrover Volvo
Jaguar, but lost the basics.
So I now have a spare tuit.
r |
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Adrian
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem - steering noise. |
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Hi Rob
Rob. wrote:
| Quote: |
Adrian wrote:
HI Rob
Rob. wrote:
Now if somebody could just tell me where the rattle's coming from
'somewhere in the region of the steering column' then I'd be a very
happy bunny !<g
Good luck
Adrian
That will either be the bushes in the steering column.
The rack needs adjustment on the pinion.
The bush at the other end needs replacing.
Thanks for the reply...
I have a set of the felt bushes for the steering column - guess that's
the first / easiest thing to try.....
Now where did I put that box of 'round tuits' <g
Thanks
Adrian
I could most likely sent you some.
Its taken me over 6 months to pull the motor on the MG, just to
lubricate the spigot bush in the flywheel, couldn't drive the thing as
it would not allow the gearbox input shaft to disengage, hence couldn't
change gear.
That's bloody modern mechanics for you, didn't use any lubricant on the
spigot after a gearbox rebuild. (Modern cars usually have a ball
bearings in the flywheel.) Fully trained on VW Audi Landrover Volvo
Jaguar, but lost the basics.
So I now have a spare tuit.
|
I had a box-full... but now I can't remember where I put them <g>
Thanks for the offer - anyway....
Trouble with the Traveller is it's now our only car - so somewhat
disinclined to do anything that might result in her being off the road.
It's the tourist season out here (such as it is since the suspension of
the Swansea-Cork ferry service - www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com)
and so I'm out & about at the open-air markets every weekend, and a
couple of big week-long exhibitions coming up also - any 'serious'
maintenance jobs will have to wait until September - by which time I'll
have mislaid that box of tuits again <g>
What fun!
Adrian - West Cork, Ireland |
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Jim Warren
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem - spigot bearing |
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Rob. wrote:
| Quote: |
Its taken me over 6 months to pull the motor on the MG, just to
lubricate the spigot bush in the flywheel, couldn't drive the thing as
it would not allow the gearbox input shaft to disengage, hence couldn't
change gear.
That's bloody modern mechanics for you, didn't use any lubricant on the
spigot after a gearbox rebuild.
|
You might find simple lubrication insufficient.
The old style (1950-60s) spigot bearings were supposed to be left
immersed in oil for 24 hours before fitting, because they were slightly
porous and absorbed enough oil over that period of time for them to be
lubricated for life - or at least for the life of the clutch when the
bearing could be renewed as a matter of course at the same time.
I don't know if the modern ones are made of the same stuff, but if they
are, just squirting oil on it won't be enough and it will eventually
grip the input shaft again.
Jim |
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Rob
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem - spigot bearing |
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Jim Warren wrote:
| Quote: |
Rob. wrote:
Its taken me over 6 months to pull the motor on the MG, just to
lubricate the spigot bush in the flywheel, couldn't drive the thing
as it would not allow the gearbox input shaft to disengage, hence
couldn't change gear.
That's bloody modern mechanics for you, didn't use any lubricant on
the spigot after a gearbox rebuild.
You might find simple lubrication insufficient.
The old style (1950-60s) spigot bearings were supposed to be left
immersed in oil for 24 hours before fitting, because they were slightly
porous and absorbed enough oil over that period of time for them to be
lubricated for life - or at least for the life of the clutch when the
bearing could be renewed as a matter of course at the same time.
I don't know if the modern ones are made of the same stuff, but if they
are, just squirting oil on it won't be enough and it will eventually
grip the input shaft again.
Jim
|
It was actually replaced about 6 years a go and lubed up then, when the
engine was rebuilt. (They are or were sintered bronze, as in the rear of
the Lucas generators.)
What happened to the gearbox was the input shaft and cluster knocked
teeth off, so I replaced the parts plus installed better parts of an old
box as well, went through the overdrive did modifications so it worked
better.
Now my son helped assemble and replace the engine/gearbox as a unit.
Hence the problem forgetting the grease on both the spline and the
spigot.(new input shaft)
Hint - with the sintered bronze bushes, especially in the generators,
before assembly you can pressure oil them. (soaking takes too long
unless you have spares lying around)
Place the bush on your thumb, fill with oil, place your index finger on
top and squeeze. This forces the oil through the bush, you can visually
see it come through. Job done.
r |
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Jim Warren
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem - spigot bearing |
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Rob wrote:
| Quote: |
Hint - with the sintered bronze bushes, especially in the generators,
before assembly you can pressure oil them. (soaking takes too long
unless you have spares lying around)
Place the bush on your thumb, fill with oil, place your index finger on
top and squeeze. This forces the oil through the bush, you can visually
see it come through. Job done.
r
Thanks for the tip. Saved in case needed. |
Jim |
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Steve Firth
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Another car, another problem |
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Jim Warren <jimwarren@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
Steve Firth wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
It's usually possible to cut them - prise open the terminal, remove and
remove the 'hook' that goes down the middle. Cut to length, insert the
hook and carefully crimp back the connector.
Depends on the type. Some used to have screw-in connectors which were a
doddle to change. Unscrew, cut lead, screw back.
Weren't they the leads with the copper wire core? I've not seen any of
that type for years.
|
Yes, those were the ones. |
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