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Dave Angel
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 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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Hi there, I have a 1961 VW Beetle and the wiring is a mess. What is
required by law for the MOT in terms of electrics?
- Do I need any fog lights front or rear?
- Do I need a hazard lights?
- Do I need a high beam indicator bulb?
- Does anything have to come on whilst the ignition is off (ie, the
horn, lights etc?)
The car will shortly have the original style rear lights which are
just a single red light which acts as the brake light, driving light
and indicator. I assume that this is also ok for the MOT.
Thanks in advance for any help. |
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Adrian
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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Dave Angel <google@logicred.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:
| Quote: |
Hi there, I have a 1961 VW Beetle and the wiring is a mess. What is
required by law for the MOT in terms of electrics?
- Do I need any fog lights front or rear?
|
No - Rear 1980, front never a requirement. Rears, if fitted, must work.
Fronts don't need to work even if fitted.
| Quote: |
- Do I need a hazard lights?
|
No, c. '74. But - speaking personally - I'd want to add 'em. If fitted,
must work.
| Quote: |
- Do I need a high beam indicator bulb?
|
No, never a requirement.
| Quote: |
- Does anything have to come on whilst the ignition is off (ie, the
horn, lights etc?)
|
Nothing specifically tested in the MOT, but I'd want side/taillights to
be able to be left on without ignition.
| Quote: |
The car will shortly have the original style rear lights which are just
a single red light which acts as the brake light, driving light and
indicator. I assume that this is also ok for the MOT.
|
I'll let you figure that one out for yourself...
Tail lights
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_110.htm
Indicators
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_150.htm
Stop lamps
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_130.htm |
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Adrian
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:
| Quote: |
- Do I need a high beam indicator bulb?
No, never a requirement.
I think you will find that it is a requirement for the C&U regs
|
It isn't. Or, if it is, Citroen were infringing C&U as late as 1990 when
they were flogging new 2cvs without a main beam warning light.
| Quote: |
- Does anything have to come on whilst the ignition is off (ie, the
horn, lights etc?)
Nothing specifically tested in the MOT, but I'd want side/taillights to
be able to be left on without ignition.
Again, stop talking about the MOT, what is important here is the C&U
regs, considering that 'parking lights' were a requirement at the very
minimum 'side lights' need to be independent of ignition switch.
|
Do they? _Need_ to be? Care to point us to a reference as to that?
| Quote: |
The C&U regs are what is important, no changes in the C&U regs (as far
as PLG vehicles are concerned) have been made retrospective, whilst the
MOT reflects the requirements of the C&U regs in force for the year of
vehicle.
|
That's fine. D'you want to actually be helpful and point us all at the
C&U regs that would be applicable to a 1961-registered vehicle?
Here in the real world, the MOT requirements are as good as you're going
to get - both in terms of actual compliance requirement and in terms of
what you may get hassle over. |
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:Jerry:
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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"Adrian" <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:g2og4v$4ic$1@registered.motzarella.org...
| Quote: |
Dave Angel <google@logicred.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much
like
they were saying:
Hi there, I have a 1961 VW Beetle and the wiring is a mess. What
is
required by law for the MOT in terms of electrics?
|
There are two sets of legal requirements, the C&U regs (for the year
of manufacture/registration) and the (current) MOT regs, items not
required under the relevant C&U regs are not required for the MOT -
but - if later additions, such as Hazard Lights, have been fitted then
they will be tested to the relevant or current MOT test standard.
| Quote: |
- Do I need any fog lights front or rear?
No - Rear 1980, front never a requirement. Rears, if fitted, must
work.
Fronts don't need to work even if fitted.
- Do I need a hazard lights?
No, c. '74. But - speaking personally - I'd want to add 'em. If
fitted,
must work.
- Do I need a high beam indicator bulb?
No, never a requirement.
|
I think you will find that it is a requirement for the C&U regs, it's
not how ever part of the MOT check.
| Quote: |
- Does anything have to come on whilst the ignition is off (ie, the
horn, lights etc?)
Nothing specifically tested in the MOT, but I'd want side/taillights
to
be able to be left on without ignition.
|
Again, stop talking about the MOT, what is important here is the C&U
regs, considering that 'parking lights' were a requirement at the very
minimum 'side lights' need to be independent of ignition switch.
| Quote: |
The car will shortly have the original style rear lights which are
just
a single red light which acts as the brake light, driving light and
indicator. I assume that this is also ok for the MOT.
|
Yes, *IF* that is the original UK fitment.
The C&U regs are what is important, no changes in the C&U regs (as far
as PLG vehicles are concerned) have been made retrospective, whilst
the MOT reflects the requirements of the C&U regs in force for the
year of vehicle. |
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Adrian
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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"Malcolm" <malcolm$$1234$$@btinternet.com> gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:
| Quote: |
- Does anything have to come on whilst the ignition is off (ie, the
horn, lights etc?)
Nothing specifically tested in the MOT, but I'd want side/taillights
to be able to be left on without ignition.
Again, stop talking about the MOT, what is important here is the C&U
regs, considering that 'parking lights' were a requirement at the very
minimum 'side lights' need to be independent of ignition switch.
Do they? _Need_ to be? Care to point us to a reference as to that?
Rightly or wrongly, I know someone who had an MOT failure because the
sidelights were wired through the ignition switch.
|
Did it have dim-dip fitted?
The only mention of ignition switch in the MOT tester's manual, as far as
sidelights are concerned, is...
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_110.htm
"On vehicles fitted with dim-dip headlamp systems, the front position
lamps must be checked for operation with the ignition switched off."
| Quote: |
I can't give a reference but my understanding is that some retrospective
changes have been made to C & U. All cars need windscreen washers
(unless the windscreen opens or can be seen round/over) and rear
reflectors.
|
....both of which are tested in the MOT... |
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Adrian
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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Roger <roger@nospam.zetnet.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:
| Quote: |
I can't give a reference but my understanding is that some
retrospective changes have been made to C & U. All cars need windscreen
washers (unless the windscreen opens or can be seen round/over) and
rear reflectors.
ISTR that the windscreen washer requirement came in circa 1970. At the
time I was running an old ex commercial 2A Land Rover with just one
wiper (which was apparently still legal) but it lacked a proper washer.
My first line of defence, had I ever been stopped, was that I had an
openable windscreen. My second that the ex washing up bottle I carried
was an excellent windscreen washer at least for the drivers side. I
never had to put it to the test so I don't know if I would have got away
with it.
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Openable windscreen's good enough. |
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Malcolm
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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| Quote: |
- Does anything have to come on whilst the ignition is off (ie, the
horn, lights etc?)
Nothing specifically tested in the MOT, but I'd want side/taillights to
be able to be left on without ignition.
Again, stop talking about the MOT, what is important here is the C&U
regs, considering that 'parking lights' were a requirement at the very
minimum 'side lights' need to be independent of ignition switch.
Do they? _Need_ to be? Care to point us to a reference as to that?
|
Rightly or wrongly, I know someone who had an MOT failure because the
sidelights were wired through the ignition switch.
| Quote: |
The C&U regs are what is important, no changes in the C&U regs (as far
as PLG vehicles are concerned) have been made retrospective, whilst the
MOT reflects the requirements of the C&U regs in force for the year of
vehicle.
That's fine. D'you want to actually be helpful and point us all at the
C&U regs that would be applicable to a 1961-registered vehicle?
Here in the real world, the MOT requirements are as good as you're going
to get - both in terms of actual compliance requirement and in terms of
what you may get hassle over.
|
I can't give a reference but my understanding is that some retrospective
changes have been made to C & U. All cars need windscreen washers (unless
the windscreen opens or can be seen round/over) and rear reflectors. |
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Roger
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:42 am Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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The message <IO6dnWaTtrDEx8zVnZ2dnUVZ8rOdnZ2d@bt.com>
from "Malcolm" <malcolm$$1234$$@btinternet.com> contains these words:
| Quote: |
I can't give a reference but my understanding is that some retrospective
changes have been made to C & U. All cars need windscreen washers (unless
the windscreen opens or can be seen round/over) and rear reflectors.
|
ISTR that the windscreen washer requirement came in circa 1970. At the
time I was running an old ex commercial 2A Land Rover with just one
wiper (which was apparently still legal) but it lacked a proper washer.
My first line of defence, had I ever been stopped, was that I had an
openable windscreen. My second that the ex washing up bottle I carried
was an excellent windscreen washer at least for the drivers side. I
never had to put it to the test so I don't know if I would have got away
with it.
--
Roger Chapman |
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Ian
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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On 12 Jun, 10:26, ":Jerry:" <INVA...@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Adrian" <toomany2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
- Do I need a high beam indicator bulb?
No, never a requirement.
I think you will find that it is a requirement for the C&U regs, it's
not how ever part of the MOT check.
.. |
Looks at 2CV on the drive ...
.... at the 1985 2CV on the drive ...
.... ... at the dashboard of the 1985 2CV on the drive.
Ian |
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Ian
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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On 12 Jun, 21:42, Roger <ro...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
ISTR that the windscreen washer requirement came in circa 1970. At the
time I was running an old ex commercial 2A Land Rover with just one
wiper (which was apparently still legal) but it lacked a proper washer.
My first line of defence, had I ever been stopped, was that I had an
openable windscreen. My second that the ex washing up bottle I carried
was an excellent windscreen washer at least for the drivers side. I
never had to put it to the test so I don't know if I would have got away
with it.
|
Pal of mine had an old Landrover which failed its MOT because the
windscreen wiper wasn't working. "Hang on mo, " he said, removing it
entirely. "Retest please." The tester almost had apoplexy, but had to
pass him.
Ian |
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Jim Warren
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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Roger wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: |
ISTR that the windscreen washer requirement came in circa 1970. At the
time I was running an old ex commercial 2A Land Rover with just one
wiper (which was apparently still legal) but it lacked a proper washer.
|
That is about the right date. I was driving a Mayflower at the time,
and had to retro-fit windscreen washers to it. You could buy a hand
operated push-to-pump kit, but it had a wicket return spring and needed
something a bit more substantial than a right-angled switch bracket to
fix it to.
I remember fitting the pump to an old spare windscreen wiper motor which
I mounted somewhere under the bonnet, so that when it was switched on it
squirted water rather than moved the wipers. Very posh - a 1952
Mayflower with electric windscreen washers!
Jim |
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John
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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| Quote: |
That's fine. D'you want to actually be helpful and point us all at the
C&U regs that would be applicable to a 1961-registered vehicle?
|
What you need are the Lighting Regulations
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/uksi_19891796_en_1
However, vehicles that are type aproved in another EU country are also
accepted under UK law.
John |
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Adrian
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: What is required (electrics) for a '61 |
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John <johnmanders@freenetname.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:
| Quote: |
That's fine. D'you want to actually be helpful and point us all at the
C&U regs that would be applicable to a 1961-registered vehicle?
What you need are the Lighting Regulations
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/uksi_19891796_en_1
However, vehicles that are type aproved in another EU country are also
accepted under UK law.
|
Nope, not that simple.
First off, the 1989 RVLR doesn't tell you what's applicable to 1961
vehicles. There's a clue in the "1989" bit. It only covers new vehicles
from that date forward.
Secondly, it's not as simple as "OK in the EU? OK in the UK", as anybody
who's ever imported and UK registered a car will know. Many EU countries
didn't require foglights, side repeaters and other stuff - seatbelts,
even - at the same times as the UK did, so retro-fitting is often
required. Not to mention, of course, that headlight dip and fog lights
may need to be changed to cope with the fact we drive on the left. |
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