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 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Christopher Tidy wrote:
| Quote: |
Mike G wrote:
snip
You're missing 'my' point. Few people want old obsolete machines,
especially if they're nearing the end of their useful life. They might
still be functional, and if someone can make use of them fine, but most
engineering Co's wont be interested in buying them, including the
majority of m/c tool dealers, so they finish up going to the scrap man.
Yes, but engineering companies and machine tool dealers don't make up
the whole of the market, by a long way.
Best wishes,
Chris
|
So who's left ?
Not the 0.001% of garden shed would be muckanics who then get
something like this, sit on it for 20 years and then the next of kin
sends it on it's way to where it should have gone in the first place.
In another thread on here a guy in Ashfield has 3 old machines we
wants to break up for scrap and melt down.
Now he's getting inquiries about selling them. He's had them, unused
and unloved for ages and now someone else is going to transport them
home to do exactly the same with.
If there was or had been a use for them they would have found a
working home by now.
All my working life I have been friends or had dealings with many
scrap men. In the early rose tinted glasses days [ before the bottle
bottoms ] I once asked why they didn't save some of the more useful
gear. The reply was they would need aircraft hangers to store it.
Last place I worked at had a costing policy of square footage. Each
square foot had a value and if whatever stood on that had a lesser
value than the cost it went and was replaced by something that
produced more.
However don't let us stop you in your quest for preserving these
things, you need to start by renting or buying a building big enough
to hold all this treasure. However that's your first stumbling block
when the rent come up you will have to scrap a couple of bits to pay
the bill.
Even scrap men have to pay council tax, business rates, insurance and
environmental taxes or did you think it was all for free.
John S. |
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Christopher Tidy
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Mike G wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: |
You're missing 'my' point. Few people want old obsolete machines,
especially if they're nearing the end of their useful life. They might
still be functional, and if someone can make use of them fine, but most
engineering Co's wont be interested in buying them, including the
majority of m/c tool dealers, so they finish up going to the scrap man.
|
Yes, but engineering companies and machine tool dealers don't make up
the whole of the market, by a long way.
Best wishes,
Chris |
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Mike G
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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"Christopher Tidy" <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote in message
news:48501898.90906@cantabgold.net...
| Quote: |
Mike G wrote:
snip
You're missing 'my' point. Few people want old obsolete
machines, especially if they're nearing the end of their
useful life. They might still be functional, and if someone
can make use of them fine, but most engineering Co's wont be
interested in buying them, including the majority of m/c tool
dealers, so they finish up going to the scrap man.
Yes, but engineering companies and machine tool dealers don't
make up the whole of the market, by a long way.
|
If you're thinking of the home w/shop market, they have little
interest in buying serious m/c tools, and by that I mean the sort
of machinery that production engineering Co's buy. Most of it is
3 phase and too heavy and bulky for the average DIYer, and yes, I
do know 3 phase motors can be changed for single phase ones, but
suitable single phase motors can be quite expensive. That's
assuming the home w/s floor can take the weight of the machine.
Smaller bench machines like lathes drills, etc, might find their
way into the domestic market, but the vast majority of machines
from new to scrap are dealt with by specialist Co's. From dealer
to factory, to s/h dealer or scrap merchant.
The DIY m/c tool market is not the same market at all. Whilst
there might be a small overlap, most of the machines on offer are
lightweight and not built to withstand the rigours of everyday
use.
Mike. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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On 11 Jun, 19:49, j...@stevenson-engineers.co.uk wrote:
| Quote: |
Christopher Tidy wrote:
Mike G wrote:
snip
You're missing 'my' point. Few people want old obsolete machines,
especially if they're nearing the end of their useful life. They might
still be functional, and if someone can make use of them fine, but most
engineering Co's wont be interested in buying them, including the
majority of m/c tool dealers, so they finish up going to the scrap man..
Yes, but engineering companies and machine tool dealers don't make up
the whole of the market, by a long way.
Best wishes,
Chris
So who's left ?
Not the 0.001% of garden shed would be muckanics who then get
something like this, sit on it for 20 years and then the next of kin
sends it on it's way to where it should have gone in the first place.
In another thread on here a guy in Ashfield has 3 old machines we
wants to break up for scrap and melt down.
Now he's getting inquiries about selling them. He's had them, unused
and unloved for ages and now someone else is going to transport them
home to do exactly the same with.
If there was or had been a use for them they would have found a
working home by now.
All my working life I have been friends or had dealings with many
scrap men. In the early rose tinted glasses days [ before the bottle
bottoms ] I once asked why they didn't save some of the more useful
gear. The reply was they would need aircraft hangers to store it.
Last place I worked at had a costing policy of square footage. Each
square foot had a value and if whatever stood on that had a lesser
value than the cost it went and was replaced by something that
produced more.
However don't let us stop you in your quest for preserving these
things, you need to start by renting or buying a building big enough
to hold all this treasure. However that's your first stumbling block
when the rent come up you will have to scrap a couple of bits to pay
the bill.
Even scrap men have to pay council tax, business rates, insurance and
environmental taxes or did you think it was all for free.
John S.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
.Totally agree with all of that John but the one thing you missed is
the impact of our new type of very helpful (and green??) councils - I
could think of a better name for them but that is what they call
themselves. At one time you could get hold of a field and store all of
these "treasures" whilst waiting for Mr 0.001% to come along dragging
his wallet. Despite being in existence for all of my life and before
these sort of yards became "unsightly, dangerous and unhealthy"
through the late eighties and suddenly needed planning permission and
various licenses and insurance/security to stop some "as***e" hurting
himself when he broke in to steal something. Oh how we laughed naively
when he got his first letter telling him his security dogs needed
muzzles. The "evil scrap man" with the best of that type of yard round
our way tried hard to protect his collection and even spent time "at
her majesties pleasure" for his efforts. All in vane though as his
yard is now green (ish) field that they pay "set aside” for. What has
to be remembered these days is that we live in a "free" society - free
that is to control, stop and charge and "protect" us for anything
vaguely useful or productive. We of course as taxpayers contribute
greatly to encourage this wonderful local authority job creation
scheme. I have to assume that the majority of the population is happy
to continue to do so? Please excuse my poor spelling but you will
sense the passion I have for this subject – now where did I put that
old soapbox?
Best regards
Apprentice grumpy old man |
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jackary
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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On 12 Jun, 10:06, jontom_...@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
On 11 Jun, 19:49, j...@stevenson-engineers.co.uk wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote:
Mike G wrote:
snip
You're missing 'my' point. Few people want old obsolete machines,
especially if they're nearing the end of their useful life. They might
still be functional, and if someone can make use of them fine, but most
engineering Co's wont be interested in buying them, including the
majority of m/c tool dealers, so they finish up going to the scrap man.
Yes, but engineering companies and machine tool dealers don't make up
the whole of the market, by a long way.
Best wishes,
Chris
So who's left ?
Not the 0.001% of garden shed would be muckanics who then get
something like this, sit on it for 20 years and then the next of kin
sends it on it's way to where it should have gone in the first place.
In another thread on here a guy in Ashfield has 3 old machines we
wants to break up for scrap and melt down.
Now he's getting inquiries about selling them. He's had them, unused
and unloved for ages and now someone else is going to transport them
home to do exactly the same with.
If there was or had been a use for them they would have found a
working home by now.
All my working life I have been friends or had dealings with many
scrap men. In the early rose tinted glasses days [ before the bottle
bottoms ] I once asked why they didn't save some of the more useful
gear. The reply was they would need aircraft hangers to store it.
Last place I worked at had a costing policy of square footage. Each
square foot had a value and if whatever stood on that had a lesser
value than the cost it went and was replaced by something that
produced more.
However don't let us stop you in your quest for preserving these
things, you need to start by renting or buying a building big enough
to hold all this treasure. However that's your first stumbling block
when the rent come up you will have to scrap a couple of bits to pay
the bill.
Even scrap men have to pay council tax, business rates, insurance and
environmental taxes or did you think it was all for free.
John S.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.Totally agree with all of that John but the one thing you missed is
the impact of our new type of very helpful (and green??) councils - I
could think of a better name for them but that is what they call
themselves. At one time you could get hold of a field and store all of
these "treasures" whilst waiting for Mr 0.001% to come along dragging
his wallet. Despite being in existence for all of my life and before
these sort of yards became "unsightly, dangerous and unhealthy"
through the late eighties and suddenly needed planning permission and
various licenses and insurance/security to stop some "as***e" hurting
himself when he broke in to steal something. Oh how we laughed naively
when he got his first letter telling him his security dogs needed
muzzles. The "evil scrap man" with the best of that type of yard round
our way tried hard to protect his collection and even spent time "at
her majesties pleasure" for his efforts. All in vane though as his
yard is now green (ish) field that they pay "set aside” for. What has
to be remembered these days is that we live in a "free" society - free
that is to control, stop and charge and "protect" us for anything
vaguely useful or productive. We of course as taxpayers contribute
greatly to encourage this wonderful local authority job creation
scheme. I have to assume that the majority of the population is happy
to continue to do so? Please excuse my poor spelling but you will
sense the passion I have for this subject – now where did I put that
old soapbox?
Best regards
Apprentice grumpy old man
|
I agree entirely, what with councilors being there (Why?) unselfishly?
for £xxxxxx pa along with a taxpayer paid pension (retire early).
Pensioners have to take money from their pension to donate to the govt
workers pension. Sorry I did not mean to use the word worker I mean
somebody employed in the non-productive zone. They consider themselves
public servants I think the taxpayers their servant. So what with them
lording it over us along with HSE executive officers aiding and
abetting them.
Rant not completely over pressure relief valve just when off, have to
build up a bigger head of steam for next rant.
Regards
Alan |
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R N Robinson
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Gentlemen
You are taking me back to the days when there were scrap dealers who lived
in a caravan in a corner of an overgrown field and knew exactly which
bramble bush the engine or what ever it was that you were after was lurking
under. I always thought that they used to do a quick tour of the field
every day before breakfast just to refresh their memory, but I suspect that
with current metal prices they might have been tempted to dispose of most of
their stock. After all, as Danny, my local dealer, used to say: "It's
illegal not to make a profit".
Ron Robinson |
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Charles Hamilton
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:23 am Post subject: Re: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Don't recall mention of another group of "sadists" in this thread, namely
the Banger racing fraternity!!!! I got hold of a Video of this "sport" once
and it broke my heart to see the starting line-up. Most of them were models
that I would give garage space to any day, Austin 3 litre, Humber Snipe
estate, Rover P5 to name but a few, all wrecked beyond recognition at the
end of the meeting and pounced on by scrap men and their hi-ab wagons
waiting like giant insects for the dust to settle.
"Christopher Tidy" <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote in message
news:484AD146.1010901@cantabgold.net...
| Quote: |
Hi folks,
I met a guy who claims to be a machinery trader yesterday while I was
looking for some JCB parts. I don't believe him, though. I think he's
effectively a scrap dealer. He showed me a Mark I JCB 3C which he bought
last week for £800. A nice machine which has clearly been looked after.
The cab was a bit tatty, but that was the only major problem it had. Ran
really well. He says he's going to scrap it so that he can get just over
£1000. I feel this is obscenely wasteful.
If I was a bit richer, I'd buy the machine to save it, but I already have
a rarer Fordson-based 3C, and I can only cope with one battle at a time.
He also told me that he'd recently scrapped a JCB 4D. That is tragic, as
the 4D is probably the rarest and most impressive JCB ever made. If I had
visited when the 4D was in his yard, I don't think I'd have been able to
resist buying it.
I guess you can blame China to some extent for driving up scrap metal
prices (for some light-hearted mockery of China, take a look at this:
http://www.dickipedia.org/dick.php?title=China). But the brunt of the
blame lies with scrap dealers who take advantage of generous sellers and
feel no guilt about scrapping good machines just to make a modest profit.
I'm not saying I'm against people making money. I'm just against people
making money through unacceptably wasteful and destructive means. It's not
just one guy either. There are plenty of these guys out there destroying
our industrial heritage. In my view, their behaviour is wholly
unacceptable, on a level with that of pimps and loan sharks. It's a pity
that there isn't a law which prevents this kind of thing.
If anyone in the Shropshire/Cheshire/North Wales area wants a Mark I JCB
3C (or the Nuffield engine, which is a great runner), drop me an e-mail
(cdt22 AT cantabgold DOT net) and I'll give you the guy's number. You'll
need to be quick, though, as he says he's scrapping it on Monday morning.
If there's one lesson we can learn from this, it's that if you can't keep
a machine and yet you want to safeguard its future, you should know the
scrap value of the machine and make sure that you set your price above it.
Best wishes,
Chris
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