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Christopher Tidy
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 Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Roger wrote:
| Quote: |
The message <484AD146.1010901@cantabgold.net
from Christopher Tidy <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> contains these words:
If anyone in the Shropshire/Cheshire/North Wales area wants a Mark I JCB
3C (or the Nuffield engine, which is a great runner), drop me an e-mail
(cdt22 AT cantabgold DOT net) and I'll give you the guy's number. You'll
need to be quick, though, as he says he's scrapping it on Monday morning.
Damn. I could make use of a digger at £1000 but getting it to Keighley,
West Yorkshire on a low loader would probably cost another £1000.
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Well, I passed on the guy's phone number to Roger, who called him first
thing this morning. But he'd already scrapped it. What's especially
galling is that he refused to sell me certain parts from the machine in
case he wanted to sell it as a functioning machine. Wasteful idiot!
I'm tempted to post his name and address here so that anyone who's
interested in machinery preservation can avoid selling stuff to him. But
for the moment I won't in case it causes me trouble. However, if you're
in the Shropshire/Cheshire/North Wales area and want to know, send me an
e-mail (cdt22 AT cantabgold DOT net) and I'll tell you who he is.
I'm fuming!
Chris |
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Mike G
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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"Christopher Tidy" <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote in message
news:484CEF8A.7040501@cantabgold.net...
| Quote: |
Mike G wrote:
It's possible that I've never seen a bandsaw that's well
adjusted. Nevertheless I remember talking to a knowledgeable
technician about the problem, and he said "They never cut
square".
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Then your technician was less knowledgable than either of you
thought.
If they weren't capable of cutting square they wouldn't be the
cut off saw of choice for most if not all, steel suppliers.
But bandsaws do seem to be
| Quote: |
more sensitive to wear and poor maintenance than hacksaws,
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Bandsaws do have more critical parts than hacksaws. In particular
the blade guides. The guides are adjustable for blade thickness,
and to an extent for the angle of twist given to the blade. They
must be set to twist the blade so it's exactly at 90 degrees to
the vice bed. As long as that setting is maintained there is no
reason why a b/saw should not make a square cut. Apart from blade
wear, as mentioned before.
and I imagine
| Quote: |
that this could be the cause of the problems.
There's a trade machine shop near me which still has a Rapidor
power hacksaw.
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IME most trade shops don't need the increased cutting capacity of
a b/saw for cutting their own material, so if they already have a
hacksaw, see no reason to change unless it wears out.
Apart from that, if space is at a premium, a hacksaw usually
takes up less floor space than a b/saw of equal capacity.
Mike. |
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Andrew Robert Breen
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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In article <5082f8b0-dafd-49a2-8e19-e17b8ec4182b@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Ian <ian.groups@btinternet.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On 7 Jun, 20:42, R D Gravy <difflock...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yes this is a unhealthy situation,most scrap dealers are only in it
for the money and nothing else...
What do you think scrap dealing is - a vocation? Of course they're in
it for the money!
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I'd rather been wondering that myself during this thread. The name
"scrap dealer" ought to serve as some sort of notice that they're
there to deal in scrap metal..
Sure, in times when business has been slow some of them may have been
happy to keep and sell on unscrapped stuff, but that isn't the case
now. And surely if you don't want something to be scrapped then
selling it to a //scrap dealer// isn't the smartest move..
--
Andy Breen ~ Speaking for myself, not the University of Wales
"your suggestion rates at four monkeys for six weeks"
(Peter D. Rieden) |
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Christopher Tidy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Ian wrote:
| Quote: |
On 7 Jun, 20:42, R D Gravy <difflock...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yes this is a unhealthy situation,most scrap dealers are only in it
for the money and nothing else...
What do you think scrap dealing is - a vocation? Of course they're in
it for the money!
|
The point we were trying to make is that we don't think you should scrap
good machines just to make money.
Chris |
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Christopher Tidy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Adrian wrote:
| Quote: |
Christopher Tidy <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:
Yes this is a unhealthy situation,most scrap dealers are only in it for
the money and nothing else...
What do you think scrap dealing is - a vocation? Of course they're in
it for the money!
The point we were trying to make is that we don't think you should scrap
good machines just to make money.
Ri-i-i-i-i-i-ight.
How's your application to the Charity Commissioners going? What do you
mean "Which application?" - surely you're looking to make this retirement
home that you're setting up for superannuated JCBs a charitable trust?
Oh, wait a mo... You're not actually doing it yourself? You're expecting
somebody else to pay to transport and store this unwanted kit that you
don't think should be scrapped? Hmmm...
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Amidst that barrage of sarcasm I get the impression that your opinion
differs from mine. Am I right? If so, forget it. As I said to someone
else earlier, either you get my disgust or you don't.
Chris |
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Christopher Tidy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Peter A Forbes wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:12:41 +0000, Christopher Tidy
cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote:
The point we were trying to make is that we don't think you should scrap
good machines just to make money.
Chris
From a non-scrappie point of view, that's fine, Chris, but to a scrappie it's
just a living, nothing more. It all ends up in that great melting pot, so as
long as he has turned over a few bob and made a profit, he doesn't care and
doesn't NEED to care, it's his living.
|
You're right, but it doesn't make it any more excusable. It's like those
property developers who buy large Victorian houses, tear them down and
build shoebox flats in their place. It may be legal, but it's wasteful
and destructive of our heritage.
With that, I'll call it a day. I don't think this discussion's going any
further.
Best wishes,
Chris |
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R A
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Chris I can see where your coming from, but its like the thread a while ago
where a chap sold his lister D and then was unhappy that the guy stripped it
and sold it off in lots, the point is once it's sold the new owner they can
do what ever they like with it. I'm sure it would make you cry to see how
many Victorian fire places and ranges where smashed to bits years ago, but
now there like rocking horse muck to find. but hey ho that life.
Rob
"Christopher Tidy" <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote in message
news:484D6F6F.8010009@cantabgold.net...
| Quote: |
Peter A Forbes wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:12:41 +0000, Christopher Tidy
cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote:
The point we were trying to make is that we don't think you should scrap
good machines just to make money.
Chris
From a non-scrappie point of view, that's fine, Chris, but to a scrappie
it's
just a living, nothing more. It all ends up in that great melting pot, so
as
long as he has turned over a few bob and made a profit, he doesn't care
and
doesn't NEED to care, it's his living.
You're right, but it doesn't make it any more excusable. It's like those
property developers who buy large Victorian houses, tear them down and
build shoebox flats in their place. It may be legal, but it's wasteful and
destructive of our heritage.
With that, I'll call it a day. I don't think this discussion's going any
further.
Best wishes,
Chris
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Kim Siddorn
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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A scrap dealer is there to make money from scrap. However much the scrap is
worth, I bet the machine representing that scrap is worth more to someone
as a going concern, especially (speak in hushed tones lest they hear us)
daft buggers like us who value oily, worn out machines as more than the sum
of their parts.
What's a Lister A weigh? And that is worth what as mixed scrap? How much
would you pay for it in poor but restorable condition?
As ever, it is communication that is the key. Mr S. Man needs to know that
there is someone just five minutes away who is keen to be parted from their
cash in order to scamper off delightedly clutching a rusty iron thingy to
his chest! It is just finding them ...........
regards,
Kim Siddorn |
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Mike G
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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"R A" <rawright@removebtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d-SdnUfV_tBTqtPVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
| Quote: |
Chris I can see where your coming from, but its like the thread
a while ago where a chap sold his lister D and then was unhappy
that the guy stripped it and sold it off in lots, the point is
once it's sold the new owner they can do what ever they like
with it. I'm sure it would make you cry to see how many
Victorian fire places and ranges where smashed to bits years
ago, but now there like rocking horse muck to find. but hey ho
that life.
|
Not quite the same thing, as I imagine most people looking for
old cast fireplaces etc, are looking to use them, rather than
keep them simply as collectors items.
Old machinery is not worth preserving simply because it's old.
Providing a few good examples are preserved in museums,
collections etc, I think that's enough to ensure they are not
forgotten.
What I would say though, is that if individuals like the idea of
owning and maybe restoring some of it for their own use, that's
their prerogative. Nothing wrong with that, but just because they
do feel that way, I don't think they should criticise those who
regard old machinery simply as scrap metal, which IMO most of it
is.
Mike. |
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Christopher Tidy
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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R A wrote:
| Quote: |
Chris I can see where your coming from, but its like the thread a while
ago where a chap sold his lister D and then was unhappy that the guy
stripped it and sold it off in lots, the point is once it's sold the new
owner they can do what ever they like with it. I'm sure it would make
you cry to see how many Victorian fire places and ranges where smashed
to bits years ago, but now there like rocking horse muck to find. but
hey ho that life.
|
Actually, the Lister D story was a little more complicated than that. As
I recall, the buyer stated that he was purchasing the engine for
preservation, and also agreed to give the original owner first refusal
should he decide to sell it. But then he stripped it and sold it for
spares on eBay. This was a clear betrayal of trust and something that it
was quite understandable that the seller was upset about.
Best wishes,
Chris |
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Christopher Tidy
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Kim Siddorn wrote:
| Quote: |
A scrap dealer is there to make money from scrap. However much the scrap is
worth, I bet the machine representing that scrap is worth more to someone
as a going concern, especially (speak in hushed tones lest they hear us)
daft buggers like us who value oily, worn out machines as more than the sum
of their parts.
|
This is exactly my point.
| Quote: |
As ever, it is communication that is the key. Mr S. Man needs to know that
there is someone just five minutes away who is keen to be parted from their
cash in order to scamper off delightedly clutching a rusty iron thingy to
his chest! It is just finding them ...........
|
I just get annoyed when they're in too much of a hurry or too lazy to
give someone else an opportunity to buy the machine.
Best wishes,
Chris |
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Christopher Tidy
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Mike G wrote:
| Quote: |
"R A" <rawright@removebtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d-SdnUfV_tBTqtPVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
Chris I can see where your coming from, but its like the thread a
while ago where a chap sold his lister D and then was unhappy that the
guy stripped it and sold it off in lots, the point is once it's sold
the new owner they can do what ever they like with it. I'm sure it
would make you cry to see how many Victorian fire places and ranges
where smashed to bits years ago, but now there like rocking horse muck
to find. but hey ho that life.
Not quite the same thing, as I imagine most people looking for old cast
fireplaces etc, are looking to use them, rather than keep them simply as
collectors items.
Old machinery is not worth preserving simply because it's old.
|
It is if it's functional, which is my point.
Chris |
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Mike G
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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"Christopher Tidy" <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote in message
news:484F14DC.2030608@cantabgold.net...
| Quote: |
Mike G wrote:
"R A" <rawright@removebtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d-SdnUfV_tBTqtPVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
Chris I can see where your coming from, but its like the
thread a while ago where a chap sold his lister D and then
was unhappy that the guy stripped it and sold it off in lots,
the point is once it's sold the new owner they can do what
ever they like with it. I'm sure it would make you cry to see
how many Victorian fire places and ranges where smashed to
bits years ago, but now there like rocking horse muck to
find. but hey ho that life.
Not quite the same thing, as I imagine most people looking for
old cast fireplaces etc, are looking to use them, rather than
keep them simply as collectors items.
Old machinery is not worth preserving simply because it's old.
It is if it's functional, which is my point.
|
You're missing 'my' point. Few people want old obsolete machines,
especially if they're nearing the end of their useful life. They
might still be functional, and if someone can make use of them
fine, but most engineering Co's wont be interested in buying
them, including the majority of m/c tool dealers, so they finish
up going to the scrap man. His main business is selling scrap, so
unless a potential buyer happens to spot it before it's broken
up, it's gone.
It's just not practical to save all old machinery, even if it is
still functional, the chances are that by the time it's chucked
out, it's become either uneconomic to maintain, or uncompetitive
compared to a new or later machine.
Mike. |
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Adrian
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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"Mike G" <metier@largefoot.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:
| Quote: |
You're missing 'my' point. Few people want old obsolete machines,
especially if they're nearing the end of their useful life. They might
still be functional, and if someone can make use of them fine, but most
engineering Co's wont be interested in buying them, including the
majority of m/c tool dealers, so they finish up going to the scrap man.
His main business is selling scrap, so unless a potential buyer happens
to spot it before it's broken up, it's gone.
It's just not practical to save all old machinery, even if it is still
functional, the chances are that by the time it's chucked out, it's
become either uneconomic to maintain, or uncompetitive compared to a new
or later machine.
|
*ding*
Sentiment only goes so far. When the scrap value is high, as are the
transport and storage costs to _not_ scrap it, the distance the sentiment
goes is radically shortened. |
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R A
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards |
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Ok fair point I didn't see that piece of the thread where an agreement had
been made, again trust no one and you wont be disappointed :-(
Rob
"Christopher Tidy" <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote in message
news:484F1411.1050207@cantabgold.net...
| Quote: |
R A wrote:
Chris I can see where your coming from, but its like the thread a while
ago where a chap sold his lister D and then was unhappy that the guy
stripped it and sold it off in lots, the point is once it's sold the new
owner they can do what ever they like with it. I'm sure it would make you
cry to see how many Victorian fire places and ranges where smashed to
bits years ago, but now there like rocking horse muck to find. but hey ho
that life.
Actually, the Lister D story was a little more complicated than that. As I
recall, the buyer stated that he was purchasing the engine for
preservation, and also agreed to give the original owner first refusal
should he decide to sell it. But then he stripped it and sold it for
spares on eBay. This was a clear betrayal of trust and something that it
was quite understandable that the seller was upset about.
Best wishes,
Chris
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